In the third instalment of The People in Housing Podcast, we welcome not just one, but four incredible guests! Joining us are Ian from Robert Heath, Richard from AirEx, Nigel from Comfort Frame, and Pete from Mixergy. Hosting this insightful conversation are our very own Social Value Officer, Tom, and Business Development Lead, Ellana.

Together, we dive into the journey toward net zero in the social housing sector, exploring the innovative products and solutions that can help achieve a carbon neutral future. Each guest shares how their organisation’s cutting edge technologies contribute to this mission, and how, when combined, these solutions can create a clear path to net zero.

Hello everyone, and welcome to the People and Housing podcast. I'm Tom Niyaa People’s Social Value Officer. There’s a bit of a change in format today. I'll be the guiding voice instead of the typical one-speaker. We have four, so I'm here to provide some background.

Starting with Robert Heath, we'll speak with Ian about his hopes to support clients in the housing sector with the transition to net zero. We'll also discuss their innovation on heat pumps and how this technology can support tenants in bringing about energy efficiency and preventing fuel poverty.

Robert Heath.

I want to start off by saying good morning and thank you for joining us at the People in Housing podcast. Ian, it's lovely to have you here. Could you just give us a bit more background about what you do at Robert Heath and how you affect the industry?

Yes, of course. I joined Robert Heath six months ago as part of the Daikin acquisition. My responsibilities are strategy and partnerships, so I'm effectively looking at what we need to do to shape the business moving forward to support our clients on the transition to Net Zero, as well as supporting our clients to identify opportunities through funding and technology to achieve their ambitions for Net Zero. Not just reducing carbon emissions, but also helping fight fuel poverty and improving comfort at the same time.

And what have you found is one of the most important things while working to fight fuel poverty within the social housing industry?

I think the key is education. It's useless to find the best technology and the best solution to retrofit a property if you're not having effective conversations with residents, giving good quality advice, and making sure they understand what you're doing. They need to be involved in the process, but they also need to understand how to interact with the new technology and get the most from it, including things like looking at their energy tariff and making sure they're on the right tariff for them.

And if you can achieve that and they interact with the retrofit effectively, they can make significant savings. But the key for me is always advice and conversations.

I would agree with that. So, what are you supporting with the social housing sector other than the retrofit and educational side of things at the moment?

Certainly. We were established in 1979 and have been in the sector for quite some time. We're a specialist M&E contractor. We specialise in heating, fossil fuels, renewables, solar PV, and electrical services. We're a traditional maintenance installation contractor. We pride ourselves on the fact that we can offer excellent service and skills for the traditional fuel types, but we can also work with a client to transition to Net Zero carbon.

And what positive benefits do you think your product can bring to the tenants that inhabit the homes with the heat pump fitted?

There's several. When you effectively retrofit a home, we always talk about Net Zero as if it's all about carbon emissions. It's really important to reduce people's carbon emissions, but we also need to pay particular attention to energy cost and make sure it's affordable, lifting people out of fuel poverty. At the same time, we also need to look at comfort. For example, a customer could have individual electric heaters in the property, and you bring in a centralised heat pump solution. It may not necessarily have a massive impact on an energy bill, but if they can only afford to heat one room and you can give them a solution for a similar cost that can heat the whole house, they can afford to heat the entire home. That can significantly increase their comfort, but may not necessarily have a direct impact on their energy bill.

In addition to that, people talk about upskilling gas engineers and moving them into renewables, and that is part of the strategy. But the reality is we're going to have gas boilers for many years to come, and we still need that skill set within the workforce. This is also about a just transition to Net Zero carbon, and through large-scale retrofits, we'll create quality jobs at the same time.

There's more than one way to lift people out of fuel poverty. We can reduce their energy bills and make the homes more affordable to run, but we can also provide quality career paths and training to help people secure good quality jobs with good prospects.

OK, perfect. So what is the initial cost for heat pumps to the social housing organisations compared to what they currently have in the tenants' homes?

At the moment, heat pumps are more expensive. It's the elephant in the room. A lot of people say heat pumps are more expensive, but the challenge is we're not comparing apples to apples. We've replaced gas boilers for years, and that's effectively a boiler swap. But when a boiler swaps, nobody really looks at the sizing of the radiators, the sizing of the pipe work. A lot of condensing boilers probably aren't condensing in homes today because they're not on the system that's optimised for them. When we install a heat pump to MCS standards, we're doing a full room-by-room heat loss calculation, checking pipe sizing, radiator sizing, and hot water solutions. We're comparing swapping a boiler to installing a brand-new heating system with renewable technology. The first heat pump is more expensive because there's more work to get it ready. But for the second heat pump, you won’t need a new cylinder, the radiators will be correctly sized, and the power supplies will already be there.

So am I'm right in saying, the heat pump is more sustainable in the long run than the traditional boiler?

Absolutely. Gas boilers burn fuel, emitting carbon emissions. Heat pumps use electricity, which is becoming cleaner as more renewable energy is integrated into the grid. Heat pumps also have high efficiency, providing more heat for less energy compared to gas boilers.

What are some of the additional benefits of heat pumps?

Heat pumps maintain a consistent temperature, unlike traditional boilers that fluctuate. They also work well with energy tariffs, as they can heat water when electricity rates are cheaper, helping reduce energy costs.

What are some of the main perks of a heat pump, aside from being sustainable? What would you say it helps with, especially regarding fuel poverty?

Heat pumps are more consistent. They are designed to maintain a constant temperature, which means you often hear people saying they can run their home one or two degrees cooler because they don’t have the peaks and troughs that you sometimes get with traditional boilers. With those, they try to heat up really quickly, overshoot a little bit, and then come down. Heat pumps provide a much more even temperature. They can also interact with energy tariffs. Because it’s electricity, you can store electricity, and the rates vary, whereas your gas rate is constant throughout the day and night.  There are multiple variable tariffs out there, and if you pair it with the right tariff, you could, for example, store your hot water at times when energy is cheapest. The heat pump could also adjust its output depending on the energy price at the time.

Additionally, heat pumps can cool as well as heat. Not all heat pump systems can, but it depends on how you distribute the heat within the home. If you hear the term air-to-air heat pump, that means it's blowing air within the home instead of using traditional radiators. If you use a blown air solution, it can cool the home as well as heat it, adding to comfort. If it's in cooling mode, there’s a drain built into the fan coils, which allows excess moisture to exit the building, providing a dehumidification effect at the same time.

Perfect. I think I’m probably not the only one who didn’t know much about this technology before. How long has it been around, and how long do you think it will take to integrate it into a certain percentage of homes within a social housing setting?

It’s been around for years. The first heat pump, or air conditioning unit, was developed in the early 1900s. The technology is the same, whether it’s in your car air conditioning or your fridge or freezer. It's been around for a long time, especially in commercial buildings. I suspect most people watching this can’t remember a time when air conditioning wasn’t standard in office buildings. It’s tried and tested. To put it simply, if you took a fridge and cut a hole in your kitchen wall, pushed the back of the fridge out of that hole, and opened the fridge door, it would cool your entire kitchen. It would slowly take the heat out and reject it out the back. Similarly, if you turned the fridge around and pushed the front out of the wall, leaving the door open, it would slowly heat the kitchen. The principles of heat pumps are a bit more advanced, but the concept is the same.

So, to answer your question, heat pumps have been around since the early 1900s. It’s not new technology, though it's still catching up in some areas, especially here. In Europe, it’s much more common.

How does this technology align with your values at Robert Heath? I know you work, if not solely, within the public sector with housing associations and social housing.

Absolutely. Our roots are in social housing. We're very passionate about what we do. We believe in a just transition to Net Zero carbon. Robert Heath is very big on family values, which Daikin refers to as people-centric leadership. To my mind, it’s the same thing. We strongly believe in the capability of people, and also in supporting the environment for future generations by deploying this technology. We know we can make a big difference, but we’re looking at the bigger picture. We don't just see ourselves as an installation business; a big part of our remit is around service and repair. You can install the best technology in the world, but if you’re not maintaining it and ensuring it achieves its maximum life expectancy, you’re not truly delivering Net Zero.

For our values, it’s about full product life cycle, and making sure we’re there to support our customers through the full life of the product, not just fit and forget.

Moving on, we’ll now be speaking with Richard from Air Ex, who through their innovation of products may change the way we think about energy efficiency and the prevention of damp and mould.

AirEx.

Hello Richard, thank you for joining us today. It’s great to have you here. Could you give us a bit more background about yourself and what Air Ex does?

Sure. I’m Richard Kempapa, Chief Commercial Officer at Air Ex. I’ve been in sustainability for about 15 years, innovating new products in that space. For the last 10 years or so, I was working in zero-emission transport, trying to get efficient trucks and buses to reduce emissions on the streets. Now, I’m working with Air Ex. I’ve been here for about a year and a half, and we focus on the retrofit space, producing energy efficiency products to help reduce heat loss in domestic properties, particularly older ones.

Our products work by reducing the heat loss from floors in older properties, particularly those built before 1945 like Victorian terraces or 1930s semis. These homes often have suspended timber floors, which are difficult to insulate. Our solution is simple: replace the air bricks and create a warm air blanket under the floor to reduce heat loss and lower bills for residents.

And how does Air Ex differ from traditional insulation?

Traditional insulation works by stopping heat transfer through the material of the floor. Air Ex, on the other hand, works by controlling the ventilation. Floors with air bricks have uncontrolled ventilation, meaning air flows through all the time. What Air X does is manage that airflow, allowing ventilation when needed to reduce the risk of damp under the floor, but keeping it closed the rest of the time to maintain warmth.

AirEx installation is quick and simple. Almost all the work happens outside the home, and the installer just replaces the air bricks. It typically takes about an hour or an hour and a half. Internally, the only thing that happens is plugging in a home hub that connects to the Internet. It’s a quick process with minimal disruption, and it helps reduce bills and the cold draughts through the floors.

How does AirEx work alongside other retrofit measures?

Since it’s quick and easy to install, it works well alongside other retrofit measures. It doesn’t take up much time, so while other work is being done, AirEx can be installed simultaneously or fit around other tasks. For example, if you’re doing loft insulation or cavity wall insulation, you could easily add AirEx as part of the process. It’s a low-cost, low-labour addition to a project that brings immediate comfort benefits and energy savings.

What does the smart connected technology of AirEx mean for social housing and customers?

We’re one of the few products that monitors the conditions under the floor and takes action based on that data. The smart technology provides real-time monitoring, giving us data on conditions under the floor, which we can use to help housing associations identify potential risks. For example, if we detect excess moisture or inadequate ventilation, we can alert the housing association to look into it before it becomes a bigger problem.

How many homes have you installed AirEx in so far?

We’ve installed over 20,000 products in around 2,000 homes, making us one of the largest datasets in the world on conditions under floors. This allows us to get valuable insights into what’s happening in these spaces, which have been poorly understood. With this data, we can help housing associations reduce risk and improve the overall health of the homes.

That's great. And what are your long-term goals?

At the moment, we’re installing about 400 units a month and plan to ramp that up. There are around 8 million homes in the UK with suspended timber floors, and we want to help as many of those as we can, particularly targeting people in fuel poverty and social housing. We’re also working on expanding our product range to include room-level ventilation and monitoring. This would further improve air quality and comfort in the home, addressing issues like damp and mould, and helping to reduce pollutants.

What sort of savings can tenants expect from installing AirEx?

From a trial sponsored by Ofgem, we found an average heat loss reduction of 12%, which translates into a bill saving of 10 to 12% for tenants. The comfort factor is also significant. When you stop draughts from the floor, it makes the living environment much more comfortable, which is as important as reducing energy bills.

That’s amazing. And with the potential to save money, how do you think this could impact social housing?

For social housing, it's all about reducing maintenance costs. If you can monitor the conditions in a home and address issues before they become expensive problems, you're saving money in the long run. The ability to monitor what's happening under the floor without having to send surveyors out is a real cost-saving benefit for housing associations.

Sounds like it can really make a difference. Finally, what’s your vision for the future of this technology?

Our vision is to continue growing and helping more homes, particularly in the social housing sector. We’re constantly improving our products to make them smarter and more efficient. We’re also looking at expanding into room-level air quality monitoring, addressing more of the home’s energy needs, and working alongside other retrofit measures for maximum benefit. There’s a lot of exciting potential to improve comfort, reduce energy costs, and make homes healthier and more sustainable.

Moving forward, we’ll hear from Nigel from Comfort Frame, who aims to support tenants in the future through innovative installation products.

Comfort Frame.

Hi Nigel, thank you for joining us today. Could you tell us a bit about yourself and what Comfort Frame does?

OK, so I’ve been in the construction industry for over 40 years, and I had the fortune of meeting some like-minded people who saw an opportunity to innovate. That’s when I came up with the Comfort Frame system. It’s an internal wall insulation solution that reduces energy usage and, consequently, bills for tenants. It’s been a long, hard journey, but we’re getting there now.

What inspired you to develop wall insulation solutions?

Wall insulation makes a huge difference in properties, especially older ones. Many homes, particularly those with solid walls, are cold, and residents often have to choose between heating or heating. We’ve worked on projects where residents couldn’t afford to heat their homes properly, and seeing how much of a difference we made is what keeps me motivated.

What challenges have you faced when introducing this technology?

Change is always difficult, and the market is quite conservative. People don’t always understand the system, so we need to prove it works through pilot projects. Once housing associations see the results, they’re more likely to adopt it.

What’s been the impact of your insulation on tenants?

We’ve seen huge improvements. For example, in one of our projects, a lady who had a son with asthma reported that after the installation, her son no longer had breathing problems because the air quality had improved. It’s not just about money – it’s about improving lives.

How does your product differ from other technologies on the market?

Our solution is different because we approach it from an end-to-end perspective. It’s designed to be quick and easy to install, and it’s repeatable. I come from a building background, so I understand how to create a system that is both effective and easy to replicate. This makes it stand out from other technologies that may not have the same efficiency in installation.

What are your plans for the next 10-15 years?

My goal is to continue collaborating with others in the industry, but also to educate the sector on why our solutions should be considered. There are new products coming out that need to be looked at, and we aim to bring them all together to deliver the best results for homes. Collaboration is key, and it will lead to faster adoption of these technologies.

How do you think the construction industry will evolve with these innovations?

I think the industry needs to start looking at the whole house – the entire dwelling. We should be doing what’s best for the home in terms of insulation, heat recovery, and delivery. By bringing all the experts together, we can offer a holistic solution that provides maximum benefit for tenants and landlords.

Now we move on to Pete from Mixergy, who will talk about the development of their hot water storage solutions, focusing on homeowner comfort, cost savings, and carbon reduction.

Mixergy.

Thank you for joining us today, Pete. Can you tell us a bit about Mixergy and what you do?

Certainly. Mixergy develops hot water storage solutions that save energy and provide the best interaction between homes and the grid. We aim to make use of surplus renewables, lowering bills for households while decarbonising homes.

What's your main mission?

Our mission is to enable the decarbonisation of housing stock without compromising on comfort or cost, while reducing carbon emissions and energy consumption.

How did you come up with the inspiration for this technology?

I had a small hot water tank in my flat, which was using energy during peak hours. After realising how much energy was being wasted, I started researching and developing a solution. My business partner Ren and I thought this could be the answer for decarbonising homes and helping renewables get onto the grid more efficiently.

What sort of energy savings have been made working with Birmingham City Council?

We’ve seen considerable energy savings across multiple high-rise blocks. Our system saves hundreds of thousands of kilowatt-hours for customers. One of the main ways we achieve savings is by ensuring that hot water tanks only heat the water that’s actually needed. Conventional tanks heat everything, regardless of usage. Our tanks learn the usage patterns and only heat the required amount of water, resulting in significant energy savings. Additionally, we use energy tariffs to save even more. For example, some homes are on economy tariffs, where energy is cheaper at night, and our system takes advantage of these cheaper rates.

Can Mixergy be part of the social decarbonisation strategy?

Absolutely. All our Mixergy tanks are heat pump-ready, meaning they can be installed with gas boilers or standalone electricity. They can also work with heat pumps in the future, and they’re compatible with solar PV systems as well, which helps reduce energy bills even further.

What has been the response from the social housing industry?

Interestingly, we’ve had a very positive response. We initially went through the contractor route, and contractors found it easy to adopt the system. The technology is intuitive and doesn’t require significant changes to the existing infrastructure. It’s been embraced by many housing associations looking for a simple, cost-effective solution to reduce carbon emissions and energy bills.

How does Mixergy’s system work with energy tariffs to save tenants money?

Electricity prices fluctuate based on demand, and when there’s a surplus of renewable energy, the price of electricity can even go negative. Our system is designed to take advantage of these fluctuations. If energy is cheaper during certain hours, Mixergy tanks can store hot water during these times, significantly lowering energy costs for tenants. We’ve partnered with British Gas and Mixergy’s ‘Bought On’ tariff to help tenants save even more, reducing their bills and supporting fuel poverty reduction.

What's next for Mixergy and your plans for growth?

We’re looking to scale up our operations, particularly with larger housing associations. We’ve just launched an integrated heat pump hot water cylinder for hard-to-treat dwellings, which makes the system even more efficient. We are constantly working to improve our products and simplify installations, ensuring they can be integrated into existing heating systems and that they offer significant savings.

How do you see the future of smart hot water systems interacting with the energy grid?

Looking back ten years, a third of our electricity came from coal. Today, it's been replaced with wind, and the price of electricity fluctuates accordingly. As more renewable energy comes online, there will be more opportunities for customers to save by using electricity when it’s cheapest. Mixergy’s technology allows homes to take advantage of these fluctuations, helping to reduce energy costs and make the transition to Net Zero more affordable for tenants.

It's an exciting time, isn't it, with this different technology?

Yeah, absolutely. I think there's a huge amount that you can do in terms of fuel poverty with quite simple interventions with connected products that can work with tariffs that, you know, only heat what you need. This sort of thing is really going to we think pay dividends and get you towards EPCC in a more efficient way.

I think it's exciting times and especially with you and obviously with the visitors we've had today, how you guys can work together to really drive down the fuel poverty at the moment and make it a more sustainable constellation of measures.

There's no one single solution. Houses are a complicated thing. They've got glazing, heating, hot water, solar PV, gas. It's a complex beast and so it needs a collaborative effort.

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