During the fifth episode of the People in Housing Podcast, our CEO Dal sits down with Russell Thompson, Head of Direct Works Forum, to discuss how the forum drives growth, networking and learning within the housing and repairs sector. The episode discovers a range of topics covering the importance of connecting with others to gain fresh perspectives and shares how Direct Works events have facilitated valuable collaborations. They also discuss the impact of mergers and acquisitions in the industry, the diverse membership ranges from Managers to Directors, and the CPD-accredited events that provide ongoing professional development.

So firstly Russell introduce yourself. 

I'm Russell Thompson, currently chair of Direct Works, a membership organisation. I also work as an Independent Consultant, which I’ve been doing for the last 18 months to two years. Before that I worked with several housing associations and prior to that I spent 10 years an Independent Consultant.

Talk us through your biggest full-time employment role within social housing. 

In 2015, I joined Thirteen Group in the Northeast. They had merged two groups into one and my role focussed on Property Asset Management, Compliance and overseeing in house DLOs (Direct Labour Organisations). I was reporting direct to the Chief Exec.

It spent five and a half years I was there and it was a constant period of change, starting with the rent cuts in 2015 and the pressure that put-on housing associations. Dealing with the impact of Grenfell in 2017, and then navigating COVIS in 2020. The biggest challenge was ensuring the business stayed viable. We had a solid asset management plan. We were able to deliver repairs and maintenance to our properties and obviously as part of that, set about trying to improve those things. By the time I left the organisation, it was in a strong position with a clear understanding of its property responsibilities.

Talk us through the size of Thirteen Housing Group, as a housing association in terms of stock.

Thirteen Housing Group is predominantly based in the Northeast covering areas like Middlesbrough, Stockton and Hartlepool, with properties in the surrounding areas. My Directorate had around 750-800 and the DLO employed about 350, 400. The remaining 750 staff members in back office, handled investment programmes, asset management, strategy development, and back office functions like grounds maintenance and caretaking. They managed around 35,000 properties.

How did you maintain a consistent message of communication across 750 people? 

It's a great question because when you’re dealing with those big numbers, it's essential to ensure that messages are getting through at entry level, and just as importantly that feedback is coming back up. Communication has to be two-way. We used lots of different methods to make sure everyone was on the same page. Team meetings were a big part of that. The agenda I’d have with my Directors would often be shared all the way down the organisation, so everyone was aware of what we were focussed on. As we pushed those messages down, we’d actively ask for feedback. What we could improve? What we were missing? What should we be paying attention to?

We also held regular get togethers and open sessions where Directorates has the chance to present hat they were doing. We’d make a bit of fun with it. On time we had a Hawaiian theme, which obviously brought a bit of fun and people engage in that, which is great.

Another important thing we did regularly was business briefings, where we’d be honest and open about how the company was performing, but also talk about what we need to do as a team. It wasn't just about the Chief Exec, myself, and Directors. It was about how everyone could contribute to aiming the company a better place to work and to improve services delivery for our customer. It was all about that holistic approach.

Of course, some of the feedback could be hard to hear, but we took it seriously. We were very open the way people could approach us. That's not everyone's cup of tea, some people don't want everyone coming to the top. People could approach the Chief Executive, he was very open. It was the right way to go. If there's an issue, we need to know about it.

I think cutting feedback is a gift, because if they've got the confidence to openly say that, they know that they're in a trusted and supported environment.

When did you first stumble across Direct Works Forum?

That's another good question, actually. I stumbled across the Direct Works Forum back in 1999 when Keith Simpson, the founder, first launched it. I was working down in Somerset in Bath, and somebody mentioned Keith's name to me. They said, “you need to speak to this guy”. So I wrote Keith a letter saying “I'm fresh in Head of Service, trying to make my way in the world, going up the ladder. I heard you’re setting this forum up.” Now, for those that know Keith, this won’t come as a surprise. He wrote an absolutely lovely letter back, I didn't expect that. It was about a page and a half saying “Congrats on your new job. Putting IT systems in is always going to be a challenge, will we ever crack it? I’d love to see you at this new forum, it’d be great if you could be part of that.” That was the introduction really to Direct Works Forum and from then I continued to go the events and there wasn't anything like it at the time and Keith was visionary.

And how many times would the Direct Works Forum meetup, say in the late 90s and the early 2000s? 

We’d probably meet up four times a year in person and, there would be about eight presentations on the day, so it was full on. People would often arrive the evening before, and those meetups were a real opportunity for networking and seeing what was new in the sector. It could range from a new system to, hearing from a housing association about how they solved a problem. People were really getting value off that.

As it grew, Keith managed to bring in some really high-profile speakers. One of them was, Sir John Egan, who was at the forefront of partnering from the 90s into the 2000s. He actually sat on our table, which was a bit surreal, we had a bit of a chat, something you wouldn't normally get exposure to. Keith was able to bring these people to the table to present to us. I think it was a big part of why the Forum attracted such large numbers over the years. Of course, it did a rise and fall over the years.

How many members at peak? How many members currently? 

At peak the Forum had around 130 members, around Grenfell time when we were doing lots of sessions focussed on its outcomes, compliance, and building safety. Right now, we're down to 60, which we’re actually happy with. Given the pressures on budgets, time out of the office, and the impact of COVID on work-life balance. We've got a solid foundation of members that support our events. It's good to see new crop coming through now. A whole range of people, which is good. We're getting that sort of refresh approach to Direct Works.

Talk us through the evolution of Russell the member, to Russell the Chair of the Direct Works Forum.

So obviously we've been talking about Direct Works Forum. Talk us about from going as a member who wrote a letter. I think some of our younger members who are going to be watching this, their first take out will be people wrote letters to each other? Yes, they did guys, believe it or not. But talk us through the evolution of Russell the member to Russell the chair of Direct Works Forum because I find that interesting. The move from being a member to getting more involved happened gradually over the years. I started attending the sessions with Direct Works about six, seven years ago, they were looking for Steering Group members. I thought “okay, maybe it's time for me to get a bit more involved”. I stuck my hand up at a meeting and said I’d step up. I joined Steering Group, which would meet before the actual Forum seminar. 

Then a real pertinent question got raised. Keith who was about 75 at the time, started thinking, it might be time for a succession plan to retain his legacy as the Form had been going 20 years. We had a bit of a subgroup that started think about the future of Direct Works, and who would take on the positions of Chair and Treasurer. Rodney, our Treasurer, was stepping down, so it was a big moment for the Forum. We had a meeting without Keith and Rodney to figure out a plan. I don't know if I felt hijacked, but I definitely felt a sense that everyone was looking at me, So, whether that was some kind of plan that they put in place, I’m not sure. I think it got the blessing off Keith as he had mentioned that I would be a good successor. It turned very quickly to all eyes on me, would you be Chair? And I said, yeah, I'd be delighted to be Chair.

It was a heavyweight because Keith was such a charismatic guy and he'd created a fantastic legacy, he's joined up so many people. I took the role on with Keith's blessing really. I felt that it was a big responsibility. That's how it was in a nutshell.

What’s your vision in the next three years for Direct Works? 

When Mike Wilson, the Treasurer, and I first took over at Direct Works, we were essentially running the Forum with the support of the Vice Chair. It’s a role we do voluntarily, in our spare time, alongside our day jobs. But our vision goes beyond just being a membership organisation, which is already a solid foundation. We want to build something more. We're constantly asking ourselves, what additional services can we offer to the sector? How can we better support our members? I think, in many ways, we’re picking up on Keith’s vision, focusing on consistency, efficiency, and value for money. It's about supporting the sector in the right way and making sure we’re creating value. We’ve seen so many instances where people have failed, and while that can be tough, failure is often the best teacher. It’s okay to fail as long as you learn from it and keep moving forward.

Direct Works is a membership organisation, and it’s not-for-profit, so there’s no money being made. The main goal is to support our members, but we feel we need to do more than just hosting seminars. We want to offer a service that brings in revenue, not just to sustain ourselves but to be able to do even more for our members. The memberships alone don’t always cover the costs of what we need to do, and that’s a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

So, we’re launching things like Direct Consult. The idea is to leverage our collective experience to support the sector, and yes, we charge for that, because that’s how businesses work, but it’s also about contributing those funds back into the Direct Works group to help fund other initiatives. It’s the seed money that will help us launch things like Direct Compliance or Direct Assets, which we’re working on now. Our vision is to build on different areas within repairs, maintenance, and asset management. We want to expand from just focusing on DLOs to include Direct Asset and Direct Compliance. These areas are all deeply intertwined with building safety, so we’re broadening our focus to take a more holistic view of these interdependent sectors.

So now we’re starting to take that broader view, we want to offer more commercial services. We’re looking at things like procurement, and we want to offer that piece as well. What’s we’ve also done is attract affiliates, members who bring in new skills that we may not have. This could range from IT software companies to builders’ merchants, so why not partner with them? These partnerships help us strengthen the services we offer.

In terms of widening our reach, as you and I have discussed, we can’t do it all on our own. We’re a small fish in a big pond, but that’s okay. We’re growing, we’re getting wiser, and we’re getting stronger. The way we’re approaching this is by collaborating and partnering with others. We’re taking things slow but steady, focusing on building the right connections and making sure that our reach is growing in the right way. Our vision is to become a one-stop shop, a place people want to be involved with.
Whether that’s offering networking opportunities from a DLO perspective, to asset management, or even expertise around repairs and maintenance, we want to be that trusted partner. We’ve built up a solid base of knowledge, with our Steering Group and experts like myself and others who are well connected within the sector. And we’re finding that people want to engage with us. They’re keen to talk about how we can help each other and how they can buy our services.

That’s really what we’re about, creating a family of services and a membership group where we can truly support the sector. The sector is improving in many ways, including in terms of salaries, but for us, it’s not just about the money. This is about giving back. Nothing’s worse than seeing all the work and effort go into something, only for it to fall by the wayside. We’re focused on building strong, lasting foundations within the sector, foundations that will help it continue to improve. We want the best for the sector, and while we do need to earn a living, there’s a bigger picture. We’re here to support the sector, help it grow, and improve it for everyone involved.

What’s the one value proposition you could tell us about? Why should the rising stars or experienced Asset Directors come and be a part of this group?

I mean 60s is a club and it's a really good club. And your pricing point, which I won't be mentioning is unbelievable good value for money. But there's plenty of Repairs Managers and rising stars within compliance who are watching this. They’ve got six or seven different events, six or seven different places they could go and spend their time, because time is so precious these days. What's the one value proposition with your background, Russell, that you could tell us about? Why should those rising stars or experienced Asset Directors join and be part of this brilliant group?

Two things from me. Don't put yourself in a vacuum. I think too many people put themselves in a vacuum where they can't get out and see what other people are doing. I think the benefit of Direct Works is about networking and meeting people that can give you a far wider perspective of what's happening in the sector. People often ask me “why do I know so many people?”, I know so many people because I've been to many events, networked, and really thought about who I want to connect with, who I want to learn from, and what I want to see. Direct Works gave me the opportunity to meet the right people. Don't get me wrong, I've gone to other seminars and conferences, but Direct Works has been a constant for me. The same faces, the same core group of people who’ve been there for a long time. You can continue building that network. You don’t lose touch after one event, and that continuity is invaluable.

There's one thing a Chief Exec said to me, if it ain't broke, we'll go break it, because that's the way you learn. And I really love that. I was only a young Head of Service at the time, but I love that he allowed me to go and experiment with things. It’s that mentality of try before you buy, taking risks, and pushing boundaries that can really help you grow.

What’s one key event from Direct Works that you’re proudest of? 

Actually, I think the moment that resonates most with me goes back about a year. It involved a housing association called Believe, based in the Northeast. The connection was through my brother, who’s also a consultant in the same sector. He’d been working with the team there, and I asked him to bring them along to one of our sessions to present what they had been doing. The key takeaway from that session was, Challenge what you already know. Think about where you’re spending your money and really consider whether it’s the best use of your resources. That message came across loud and clear, Challenge the norm, keep pushing the boundaries, and work together as a team to move things forward.

But what really stood out to me was the response they got afterward. Multiple people reached out to them, saying, “We loved what you did at Direct Works. Can we talk to you about doing the same?” I honestly don’t think there’s any better form of praise or recommendation than that. And it wasn’t just one or two people, it was three, four, five individuals who were either mentioning them in conversation or sending emails saying, “We really liked what you shared, can you connect us with them?” It’s always powerful when members of your group are actively talking about what they’re doing in a way that resonates with others in the room. They could network, share their experiences, talk about how they approached their projects, and explain the hurdles they had to overcome. That kind of sharing really stuck with me.

I think it really hit home because when you’re organising events like these, and pulling speakers and content together, there’s always a bit of nervousness in the background. You really hope that everything hangs together, that there’s a clear theme, and that the points you want to make land with the audience. We don’t always show it, but there’s a lot of behind-the-scenes work and nerves. And when it all clicks, when people walk away saying they had a valuable experience, that’s when you feel like it was all worth it. That’s what we want, to provide value through membership. The positive feedback from that day was something I’ll always remember from the past couple of years.

Talk us through the courses and affiliate courses that the Direct Works Forum offer to their members?

Yeah, we have quite a diverse number of speakers and we cover quite a few topics. What we wanted to do was be accredited for those topics. We've now registered with CPD, so all our events are now CPD accredited. People then, particularly those in professional institutions, are able to earn points by attending our seminars, workshops, and presentations. This is a way of extending the value of the membership.

We’ve made sure that they event we offer aren’t just a one-way presentation. We also do workshops. We've done some workshops on apprenticeships, damp and mould issues, and the new TSM's that have come into play. We've mixed and matched our approach, what we've offered is a bit of variation and as a consequence we wanted to accredit people with the ability from a workshop, a seminar, a presentation. We just want to recognise that, to give people more value out of the membership.

Which speakers are you looking forward to hearing the most at your event tomorrow?

I don’t want to single one out, but I think it's going to be interesting to have the regulator in the room, I'm really looking forward to that. But I'm looking forward to all of them really, because as I said earlier on, it's always interesting thinking what's going to happen on the day and how's it all going to flow. I'm looking forward to how all the speakers are going to complement each other, and see the overall value that we're going to get from all of them.

We've got a couple of suppliers in there and it's all about customer experience and segmentation. Then we've got the regulator to give us that broader holistic view. Then we've got TPAs which is the organisation for customers or tenants, we're going to get a real broad range of views all concentrating on that customer theme. It'd be good to see that golden thread, as it comes through all of them. That's the bit I'm looking for, how all that links in and people will be able to take away all the key messages that will come from those presentations.

What kind of responsibility level and job role are members of the Direct Works Forum?

I would say its predominantly middle management that get attracted, which has changed over the years as I said earlier on, we used to have a lot of Property Directors that would come to Direct Works. That was an opportunity for people like me in my younger days, learning from these people, bugging them for a few hours, talking about stuff. But that's the way you learn, isn't it? Talking and networking with people, and tapping into their experience and knowledge. We'd like to encourage more of that. But we do understand there's a far wider and strategic debate for Exec Directors to come along to this event, so it’s on our minds about how we take that forward. Do we do some roundtable events? Do we get some Exec Directors talking around relevant subjects and getting a broader view, maybe doing a white paper, maybe it’s repairs and maintenance, asset management? It's something in the offering that we'd want to talk about at a later date I think.

Is there a specific sweet spot of housing stock that are Direct Works members at all or is it quite dispersed from the TMO? 

It varies quite a bit actually. It can be anything from 5,000 to somewhere around 70,000, 80,000 on social housing. We've carried out a survey not long back actually, we were surprised of how much the numbers varied. I would say it's evenly dispersed around the number in terms of stock but what I guess is consistent about that, is the fact they've all got DLOs. The thing is everything that everyone's going through is the same as whether you're doing 5,000 units or 100,000 units. They're the same issues around getting work done on time, resources, cost of materials, recruitment, which obviously resonates with yourself, meeting KPIs, budgets, the whole thing, they're the same wherever you go. It's just scales and size that's different, all the problems are still the same.

What’s your opinion of all the mergers and acquisitions across the space? How do you think that’s going to evolve within the next three years? 

It's an interesting move, isn't it? I think it's inevitable to be fair. I don't think it's the first time we've seen this, I think we've seen it in the past. I think it probably mirrors what the economy is doing as well, gathering strength in numbers. We've seen that before and I think we'll see that again. The fact there is a lot of work out there, people think that's a really good thing. But I think it's also challenging from a delivery point of view. I can understand where organisations want to grow their family businesses and improve their resource base as well. I sit as a non-exec on a Procurement Consultant as well, we get a little bit of first-hand knowledge around what's happening and there isn't a whole raft of people out there to do the work, whether it's local, whether it's regional, whether it's national, it's not growing. It's pretty stagnant.

One of the reasons we're probably seeing some more of these mergers happening is to provide more capacity for those larger organisations, to be able to take those additional contracts on. Is that a good or a bad thing? Well I think for the sector we need stability. So, there's some positive on the back of that. It depends on how organisations want to procure that work. If they want more of a local feel, then it's possible that they would want to attract a local company. For a lot of people, they've done the total opposite. We've seen a trend of people insourcing the work for themselves and running DLOs, which is something I'm an advocate for but I think it's about cutting your cloth to suit. It's about not one size fits all.

There is a place within the sector for all those different models. From my perspective it's horses for courses. And on some occasions, you do need a contractor that's got a lot of armoury and is able to offer that holistic approach. There is a place and a time for those organisations, so some of that is positive. Employees of those small organisations being absorbed is probably a good thing as well. It's continuity of work, and providing an opportunity to stay in work with an organisation rather than go through a constant competitive situation where you're on the wrong end of the contract. So, I think it's just inevitable. I've been around the sector a long while. These sort of peaks and troughs happen. What I do know is that it's harder trying to recruit people from a trade perspective, even from a technical point of view, with the number of people leaving the industry. 

Are you welcoming new members?

Absolutely, yeah. We would welcome anybody coming on board. If you get anybody that sees this and thinks, I'd like to be involved in something like that, come along, get involved. As we sort of diversify what we're doing, we don't want to be the people that are constantly the head of Direct Works and Direct Assets, we want to bring new people in. If people want to come and get involved and see what we're about. Come along for a day and if you can get some value, great. Come and join us.

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